David Irving may have changed some of his writing, in recent years, in an attempt to preserve his reputation as the foremost historian of World War II, and to eke out a living after he was destroye…
Did 6 million Jews really die in the Holocaust — not according to David Irving | Scrapbookpages Blog Scrapbookpages Blog August 5, 2013 Did 6 million Jews really die in the Holocaust — not according to David Irving Filed under: David Irving, Germany, Holocaust, World War II — Tags: David Irving, Did 6 Million really die?, Ernst Zundel — furtherglory @ 10:20 am David Irving may have changed some of his writing, in recent years, in an attempt to preserve his reputation as the foremost historian of World War II, and to eke out a living after he was destroyed by the Holocaustians during his libel suit against Deborah Lipstadt a few years ago, but it cannot be denied that David Irving is the best person to know if 6 million Jews really died in the Holocaust. I’ve met the man. He is a walking encyclopedia, when it comes to the history of World War II. Photo of David Irving, 2003 There has been a lot of discussion recently in the comments on my blog, regarding the 6 million Jews who allegedly died in the Holocaust. The Nazis didn’t bother to keep records on the 6 million, so the argument continues. Way back in 1985 and 1988, Ernst Zündel was put on trial, twice, in Canada because he had distributed a pamphlet entitled Did Six Million Really Die? He was charged with spreading “false news.” You can read about the two trials of Ernst Zündel here. David Irving was a witness for the defense of Ernst Zündel in the second trial in 1988. The following quote is from this website, which gives some of the testimony from the 1988 trial, including the testimony of David Irving: If the ‘Holocaust’ is represented as the allegation of the extermination of 6 million Jews during the Second World War as a direct result of official German policy of extermination, what would you [David Irving] say to that thesis?, asked Christie. “There are several elements of that sentence I would dispute,” said Irving. “Firstly, the allegation that it was official German policy. We are not familiar, neither the academic nor the professional historians are familiar with the slightest documentary evidence that there was any such German policy. And I should be familiar with it having spent ten years wading around in the archives of the German High Command and speaking with Hitler’s private staff. It isn’t there. I am not familiar with any documentary evidence of any such figure as 6 million and I think I know how the figure originated because I am familiar with the private papers of the American Chief Justice at Nuremberg, the Justice Robert H. Jackson and I saw the actual interview on which that figure was…arrived at…Many years ago, I wrote a very detailed analysis of the Nuremberg trial and the procedures and the sequence of events at the Nuremberg trial. In the course of which I obtained privileged access to all the private and official records of the American chief prosecutor, Justice Robert H. Jackson, in the course of which I changed my opinion about him. I set off with a bad opinion of him and in the light of what I read in his diaries, I came to realize he was a profound and honest American lawyer.” (33-9349, 9350) Do you have any opinion as a result of your research as to the number of Jews who died in concentration camps during the Second World War?, asked Christie. Said Irving: “I am not sure that an opinion here would be of use. I have opinions. I have opinions, however, in the kind of statistical orders of magnitude, where you can see there’s a minimum number and a maximum number, and I can only set these two limits and say that to my mind, it must have been of the order of 100,000 or more, but to my mind it was certainly less than the figure which is quoted nowadays of 6 million. Because on the evidence of comparison with other similar tragedies which happened in the Second World War, it is unlikely that the Jewish community would have suffered any worse than these communities. You can weigh the figures in certain ways and look at air raid damage and look at other communities like the gypsies and so on and say, this is the balance of probabilities. But it shouldn’t be necessary to talk about probabilities. All Hitler’s other crimes are documented in statistical details in the archives. This is supposed to have been the biggest crime of all and yet the documents just aren’t there so why do we have to speculate? Why do we have to have opinions about figures?” Irving pointed out that there was documentary evidence to support the German policy of deporting the Jews: “Oh, yes. Quite definitely. In the course of my Hitler research I came across acceptable German archival evidence which met the criteria which Hugh Trevor-Roper had taught me, being authentic documents written by people in a position to know. I came across documents showing that Hitler had given the orders for the deportation of the Jews to the east. This deportation was in full swing by the middle of 1942 and you find, for example, Heinrich Himmler writing to Gauleiters that the Führer, Adolf Hitler, has given me the order to make Europe free of the Jews, clean of the Jews from west to east, stage-by- stage, and it’s quite clearly referred to as Hitler’s order, the deportation.” (33-9351, 9352) There were, however, no orders for the extermination of Jews: “None whatsoever. I have not found in any archives of the world, including I mentioned the Israeli archives which have been co-operating with me; I also underline the fact even in the British archives, where we were reading the signals, the code signals of the SS units operating on the eastern front, with our code- breaking machinery, not even in the British archives are there any deciphered Hitler orders for the killing of Jews…There are no explicit orders and this is where the academic historians start asking us to read between the lines and find fancy translations for certain words and I wouldn’t go along with those methods. I want in a crime as big as this to find explicit evidence.” (33-9352, 9353) So there you have it. A man, who has spent most of his life studying the German archives and talking to people who knew Hitler, says that Hitler did not order the genocide of the Jews, and there is no evidence that 6 million Jews died during World War II. This quote is also from the IHR website: Irving had read Did Six Million Really Die?: “…I have seen this book before over several years. I have never read it until two days ago when a copy was sent to me by courier in Florida with a request that I should read it for the purposes of this trial. And I read it with great interest and I must say that I was surprised by the quality of the arguments that it represented. It has obvious flaws. It uses sources that I would not personally use. In fact, the entire body of sources is different. This is based entirely on secondary literature, books by other people, including some experts, whereas I use no books. I use just the archives. But independently, the author of this came to conclusions and asked questions of a logical nature which I had arrived at by an entirely different route, so-to-speak. I give one example. On one page, which I can’t remember, he asks the obvious logical question, if you are going to exterminate millions of people, why did you go to all the trouble of shipping them thousands of miles across Europe first? This is the kind of logical question which the academic historian[s] have ducked until now. And if I was to ask what is the value of a brochure like this, I think it is that it provokes people to ask questions, rather as my book on Hitler’s War provoked the historians. I think I am told that this court has heard about the historians’ dispute that has opened up in Germany. That was entirely as a result of my controversial book on Hitler. Until 1977, the German historians had never asked the obvious questions. This is the kind of value which I found this brochure to have. It was asking proper questions on the basis of an entirely different set of sources. But I do emphasize that it contains flaws and it contains also some opinions with which I personally wouldn’t agree.” (33-9347, 9348) Did you catch that? The obvious question is “if you were going to exterminate millions of people, why did you go to all the trouble of shipping them thousands of miles across Europe first?” Specifically, if you are going to exterminate Jews in Holland, why ship them across Europe, in passenger trains, to the banks of the Bug river, to kill them in gas chambers using carbon monoxide, and then bury them 30 feet deep because there are no ovens in which to burn the bodies? Use your heads, people! The number one characteristic of the German people, after cleanliness, is efficiency. The Germans would never have carried out the “extermination” of the Jews in the way that the Holocaustians claim. And if they had, the Germans would have kept records. If records had been kept, David Irving would have found them. Don’t criticize David Irving, unless you have written as many books as he has, and you still have dust in your lungs from years of searching the German archives. Share this:FacebookXLike this:Like Loading... Comments (27) 27 Comments I’ve met him too and supporters of his who are fleeing just as fast as they can with the “new developments” about limited gassings to which he answers when asked how could it have happened, “I don’t know and I don’t care.” He may have been an authority, NOW his interpretation of the ‘facts’ is seriously suspect, especially when he has dubious (at best) if any proof. I cut off his work maybe about 2012. His ‘findings’ need to be considered WITH A grain of salt largely because they come from the SOVIET ARCHIVES like the Goebbels Diaries. SOVIET FAKES The Moscow ” Goebbels Diaries” There are other episodes discussed here which encompass both documentary frauds and what Trevor-Roper termed “unchecked human testimony.” (H.R. Trevor-Roper, “The Last Days of Hitler”, New York, 1947, p. 197, notes) The collapse of the Soviet Union may have seen the temporary end of Russian expansionism, but it did not see a termination to an incredible outpouring of documentary forgeries which have plagued the historical world since the beginning of the Twentieth Century. Russian historical experts working for the NKVD and its successor, the KGB, conducted, and still are conducting, a prolific forgery factory in Moscow. These products have sown dissension and confusion in the ranks of legitimate historians and journalists. The former are more difficult to delude, but the latter, eager for sensational material with which to reap profits, are extraordinarily careless in assessing the accuracy of offerings from Muscovite document peddlers. Aside from extensively rewriting their own history, Russian forgery experts spent most of their time in producing material designed to delude, confound and mislead their perceived enemies, both domestic and foreign. Much of this began after the Second World War with extensive rewriting, editing and deliberate forgeries of German military and political documents designed to embarrass the United States and its client, the West German government, as well as to elevate the image of their own regime. Faked reports dealing with the purported death of Hitler began the deluge and these were followed by endless papers concerning the fate of Martin Bormann who the Soviets claimed was living somewhere in the West, probably protected by the insidious Americans. The same creative writers also heavily edited and enhanced the records of German Army Group Center, captured by their military units, when that entity was overrun during the war. The purpose of this exercise was to supply proof that German General Adolf Heusinger, nominated for a high NATO position, had been involved in war crimes on the Eastern Front during the course of the war. The KGB intermingled original, relatively unimportant documents with doctored or completely invented papers, released these through their agencies in the West and awaited the results. Fortunately, other period copies of the original documents were safe in German and American archives and comparisons quickly disclosed the fraudulent nature of the Heusinger attack. (See Security and reduced tension: On the occasion of the 70. birthday of general (ret.) Adolf Heusinger. 4 August 1967. Markus-Verlagsgesellschaft, Cologne 1967.) Many documents were prepared over the years in the event that they might be needed for a future propaganda assault and then left secure in Soviet archives. In addition to these activities, the KGB experts also concocting material proving that many American prisoners of war remained in Vietnam after the American withdrawal, and Mr. Morris, an American historian, was taken in by these as period articles in the New York Times show. Also produced was a series of badly forged papers proving that US citizen, John Demjanjuk, was a notorious German concentration camp guard, which was exposed in U.S. Federal Court proceedings in Virginia. Both of these projects were eventually exposed as frauds, but the problems they engendered during their brief life span were monumental. One of the most ambitious Soviet productions concerned the writings of Dr. Josef Goebbels, Hitler’s brilliant Minister of Propaganda, who killed himself and his family in the Berlin Führerbunker in 1945. Dr. Goebbels was a devoted diarist, setting forth his experiences and thoughts on a daily basis beginning in the 1920s and running through to the final days in Berlin. After he became Minister of Propaganda, these records were dictated by Goebbels on the following day and typed by a secretary on special paper using a large-type continental typewriter. An original and two carbons were made and the completed documents carefully stored. It should be noted that with the increasing pressures of his offices, Goebbels no longer had the time to write out his diary by hand, but always dictated it to a secretary on the day following the events he wished to record. After the war, in 1946, a book appeared in East Berlin entitled Extracts and Confessions of a War Criminal and purported to be quotes from the Goebbels’ diaries. It was later discovered that the book, which was entirely fictitious, was written by one Max Fechner, a well-known German communist, once the deputy head of the Socialist Unity Party, and a colleague of the German communist leader, Walter Ulbricht, who had spent the war in Moscow amongst his friends. In 1967, Soviet historian Jelena Rshewskaja published a book in East Berlin entitled Hitlers Ende ohne Mythos (Hitler’s end without Myth) in which she discusses having inspected “thick folders of handwritten Goebbels material” found in the bunker. In the same year, the pump was further primed by a similar report from Juliusz Stroynowski, a historian from Communist Poland who had fled to the West. He disclosed that he had accidentally discovered “several stacked folders” of handwritten Goebbels’ diaries “in the archives of the Soviet Ministry of Defense.” Stroynowski claimed that he had been permitted to examine the material, but was not allowed to make copies of any of it. The stage was now set in the press and interest aroused. The actual purported diaries were disclosed once again, this time to British journalist John Costello, who again was only permitted to look and not to copy, according to a letter from Costello to Robert Crowley in 1991. A copied document is, in the hands of any journalist or academic, a published document. And a published document which has passed from the control of its owner, and in the case of the Goebbels material, its creator, cannot be sold for profit. Because handwritten documents on the original, special paper Goebbels used would have been nearly impossible to successfully fake, the new Soviet line was that the documents had actually been typed and then put onto glass negatives. These were hidden by the Germans in cases where the Soviets were able to “discover” them after the war. Having altered the Goebbels’ diaries from “several stacked folders” of handwritten material to a box of more easily forged photographs of typed manuscript, the Russians began to offer their rare, politically-incorrect material to sources in Germany for sale and publication. German experts universally rejected these productions as completely fake. The documents originating in Moscow, especially the glass-negative photographic copies, are entirely spurious and were initially designed with political propaganda in mind, though later sold for a considerable sum of money to a British tabloid journalist intent on publishing them as his own political propaganda, and, of course, the unavoidable David Irving tried to make profit from this as well. Like the fictitious Walter Schellenberg “memoirs” published under the title The Labyrinth, the dissemination of the equally fake Soviet produced Goebbels’ Papers does a tremendous disservice to legitimate historians and researchers into whose works some of this contaminated material will eventually seep. The temptation to embroider historical facts to fit a particular ideological point of view is difficult for some journalists to successfully resist. Some might well accept a faked Goebbels file, if, for example, it were prove that Hitler did not order a holocaustic killing of European Jews, while others might well use the medium of a questionable interview to prove the contrary. Based to a very large degree on completely fictitious documentation prepared by the former Soviet KGB as political disinformation, Irving’s biography of Dr. Goebbels is full of pointless anecdotes, s******ing sexual innuendo and leaves an objective reader with the distinct feeling that the book should have been written in the sort of soft crayon supplied to therapy patients in locked wards. Fakes & Frauds II: David Irving. The Pathologist’s Report: An autopsy on the remains of David Irving __________________ « Meanwhile, the war against the Soviet Union has allowed us to dispose of new territories for the final solution. Consequently, the Führer has decided to displace the Jews not towards Madagascar but towards the East. Thus, there is no longer any need to consider Madagascar for the final solution. » – Franz Rademacher, Feb. 10th 1942, Nuremberg Doc. NG-3933 « Revisionists are just the messengers, the stupid impossibility of the ‘Holocaust’ story line is the message. » – Hannover (CODOH) Comment by Diane King — March 19, 2016 @ 10:45 am A probable reason why the NAZIS would transport JEWS across Europe to dispose of them could be to keep up a certain public appearance. No matter how horrible a person is, some, at times, want yo put forth an image that is more positive than what they actually are. Sweeping any “discretions” under the rug and keeping them hidden would be beneficial to the legacy of Hitler and the NAZIS because hated or not, killing mass numbers of innocent people is still a smear on you no matter what spin you put on it. Comment by Shaun Dent — January 16, 2016 @ 9:16 am “It is a cheap and nasty lie to call me a Holocaust-denier.” – David Irving, August 2013 http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/index.html Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — August 10, 2013 @ 12:27 pm As I wrote, David Irving has changed his opinions about some of the Holocaust stories. He now believes that Jews were killed at Treblinka, for example. Comment by furtherglory — August 10, 2013 @ 3:27 pm NeverAGAIN! wrote: “Why not profess your hate for Jews, pray for the next Hitler…at least you would be intellectually honest!” I am intellectually honest. I do not profess the hate for Jews and I don’t profess the love of them. Are you looking for unconditional love for jews? We are not hating you, but we don’t have to “love” you either. You are not special and must be treated as everyone else. You are lying to us and giving us… truncated (27,969 more characters in archive)