The atomic age officially began in August 1945 when the world’s first atomic bomb was detonated in New Mexico at a place called Trinity. But something else happened near that site just a few weeks …
Trinity UFO crash investigated by Jacques Vallée – Mystery Wire Skip to content Mystery Wire Sign Up Sponsored By Toggle Menu Open Navigation Close Navigation Search Please enter a search term. Primary Menu About About Mystery Wire Email Newsletter Contact Mystery Wire Do Not Sell My Personal Information Area 51 UFO Documents Mystery Wire Interviews Military Tech Paranormal Mysteries Podcast Space Science True Crime Video The Latest Search Please enter a search term. UFO Trinity UFO crash investigated by Jacques Vallée by: George Knapp, Duncan Phenix Posted: Oct 21, 2021 / 05:24 PM PDT Updated: Oct 25, 2021 / 07:50 AM PDT by: George Knapp, Duncan Phenix Posted: Oct 21, 2021 / 05:24 PM PDT Updated: Oct 25, 2021 / 07:50 AM PDT SHARE Scroll down to read the transcript of George Knapp’s interview with Jacques Vallée. MYSTERY WIRE — The atomic age officially began in August 1945 when the world’s first atomic bomb was detonated in New Mexico at a place called Trinity. But something else happened near that site just a few weeks later. Dr. Jacques Vallée “Now remember, this was 1945, August 1945. Two years before Roswell,” Dr. Jacques Vallée said in a new interview with Mystery Wire. “There was no concept of flying saucers, Kenneth Arnold would come up with that term in July. August ’47 is when all that thing about flying saucers came up. So there was no concept of something like that. And also, the object wasn’t a saucer, the object was shaped like an egg, like an avocado.” A local rancher and his children said the odd-shaped craft of unknown origin crashed into the desert. The ranchers who lived near the bomb site saw and felt the blast. One of the rancher’s family members was blinded in one eye by the light from the blast. Vallée, who is an astrophysicist and the world’s foremost authority on UFO mysteries was the model for the French scientist in the Spielberg film “Close Encounters of the Third Kind.” “Vallée has co-written a new book, Trinity: The Best-Kept Secret, with Paola Harris. The book is based, in part, on the testimony of multiple eyewitnesses who saw the object after it collided with a communications tower, gouged a trench in the desert floor, then came to rest on a ranch property outside of San Antonio New Mexico, not far from the site of the Trinity blast. The eff-shaped object was mostly intact, Vallée says, with the exception of a hole in its side. The rancher’s two young children said they saw three occupants inside, “They were short. They were about the same size as the kids, about four feet tall. They were humanoid,” Vallée said. “They were breathing the air. They didn’t have a helmet or a mask or anything else. They had sharp eyes. They had almost no mouth and very little nose. And they were wearing coveralls that look gray. And they stayed inside the object so the kids saw them through that opening.” The size and weight of the craft were estimated by Vallée by finding out what type of truck and trailer were used to haul the craft away from the crash site. “My estimation is between four and a half tons and five tons,” Vallée said. “The kids tried to move it when it was on the truck ready to go. It was on the side because if it had been upright, it wouldn’t have gone under the overpass on the highway. Vallée says it took days until authorities arrived and by then, the three crewmen were gone, but metal samples were collected and are now undergoing analysis in a lab. Jacques Vallée and AAWSAP Vallee also made his first public comments about the AAWSAP program, the Advanced Aerospace Weapon Systems Application Program, a secret investigation into UFOs and related phenomena overseen by the DIA and carried out by BAASS, a private contractor owned by Las Vegas businessman Robert Bigelow. (Details about AAWSAP were made public last week with the release of a new book Skinwalkers at the Pentagon. Vallée said his role was creating the digital infrastructure for what might be considered the world’s largest database of UFO incidents and anomalous events. Vallee says it is so large that it more akin to a data warehouse than a data base. Flashback: Jacques Vallée On the Record “That was the main product of the project,” Vallée said. “They make that clear in the book, there were a number of people working on it, all I can do is confirm what their book says. I mean, it’s accurate. I’m surprised at how accurate it is. Because you know, that database exists. And it’s not really a database, it’s a data warehouse with a number of parallel stovepipes because you can describe when a pilot has seen the same way as a kid or a trucker or radar. So you have to have a structure that cuts across and preserves the unique stovepipe parameters of an aircraft, you know, another type of site. So that’s what we built, I designed it. The credit should go to Lieutenant Colonel Kurth, who led the team that took it over from me, I transferred it to them after the design was done. What was done was only 1/3 of the work. The plan was then to build another layer of authentication of the entire data warehouse, which were about 200,000 cases. But you know, 200,000 records you can put in your cell phone today. So, it’s not a big database. What’s big is that every record was very long and complex, okay. And that took time to dig up, validate, and translate from other languages. We had translators, interpreters and so on on the staff, and they were trained on what to look for, what to recognize. And then so it is pretty big at the end of the day, and then there was a third layer that I designed and never implemented of AI on top of it. You need to use artificial intelligence, that’s the proper use of AI to make sense of all the data.” George Knapp Jacques Vallée, it’s great to see you and great to be able to talk to you as always. I want to start with the broader discussion about UFO crashes. As noted in the book, Trinity: The Best-Kept Secret, you get asked as I do a lot about UFO crashes, how is it possible they crash? They fly all the way here from Zeta Reticuli, and then they get here and they crashed? I don’t buy it. That’s what people tell me. How do you answer people when they ask that question?Jacques Vallée It’s a fair question. And, you know, I must eat Humble Pie here. Because for a long time, people have been asking me to talk about crashes. And I haven’t talked about it very much. And I remember the days with Dr. Hynek, where we were talking about Roswell and all the other cases and people were sending us data, you know about things that I had picked up. But we never had something, you know, that we could take to the lab, and test until really this this case. Even at Roswell, you know, as fascinating as Roswell is, of course I believe in the witnesses, but the witnesses got to the site a couple of days later, okay. There, there wasn’t anyone there who actually saw the thing crash on that particular property. They had to search for it, if you remember, and there was this big storm and they had trouble finding the location. In fact, still now there are people arguing that they are two different locations, and so on. In this case, this is a turning point, because the case happened on the property where the witnesses were. They were there every day, there were two young children. The oldest one was nine, but they were there every day checking the cattle for their family. This was at the end of World War Two, and all the adults were fighting. You know, all the able bodied men and women were deployed from Japan to Germany. And so the children were given the job of taking care of their cattle. And on that particular day, they were looking for a cow that they knew was going to have a calf, and their father wanted to make sure that the calf was okay, that the mother was okay, and they could mark the cows with their brand and everything else. So they were there and they were there with very good binoculars on their horse. And an object came up. It came in from the east, from the southeast. And it hit a communication tower, which was controlling communication on the north end of White Sands. Those were the late days of World War Two, the atom bomb had been exploded there. About over three weeks before. They had seen the explosion. They were within the perimeter, the enlarged perimeter of White Sands. So they were well used to the military operations in the area. That communication tower was both for civilian and military airplanes, guiding them around the mountain. After it crashed into the tower, the object got to the ground. It didn’t exactly crash it. It kept its integrity. It didn’t blow up into pieces the way an airplane would have. It was apparently very strong. The tower was bent but the object kept going. It came to the ground, and it plowed an avenue all the way down the hill. They made a turn apparently under power and stopped against a bump in the terrain. The kids saw that. Now remember, this was 1945, August 1945. Two years before Roswell. There was no concept of flying saucers, you know, Kenneth Arnold, would come up with that term in July. August 1947 is when all that thing about flying saucers came up. So there was no concept of something like that. And also, the object wasn’t a saucer, the object was shaped like an egg, like an avocado. They, of course, spoke Spanish. And the term they used was an avocado about the size of two trucks. So this was, it’s hard to say that it didn’t happen. I mean, obviously it did happen. I mean, that tower was bent. The traces on the ground, the kids knew that the first thing to do in a case like this, again, was the end of the war, was to help the pilots of whatever that thing was. So they rushed down, the vegetation is on fire, the brush is on fire, the object is not on fire contrary to what some books have said. But we have all the details, because with Paola Harris was the first to know about the case, she interviewed both of the witnesses with who by then were in their 70s. And I’ve had a chance with her over the last four years to re-interview Mr. Padilla, Jose Padilla, who is still very much alive, has an extremely good memory, which I envy, I don’t have a good memory. And we reconstructed everything. And we found a third witness, and a fourth witness. There was a bomber that was coming in for landing at Alamogordo. Alamogordo is the airbase inside White Sands, which is an enormous area, as you know. And he was told by the control tower to take a look at the communication tower because they had lost communication with the north end of the range. So he circles a tower. He says the tower has been hit by something. So it confirms what the witnesses are telling us. And then he sees the fire and the smoke. So he circles the object. He describes that there is an object there, and two little Indians. Well, they are not Indians, you know, but they were their horses, so we have a check from everything. And the two kids look at the object, they are shocked to see there is an opening. Apparently there is one panel that has been ejected with the thing hit the tower. Through that opening, they see three beings, three creatures inside. And I’ve had a chance to go through the transcripts that Paola recorded. Sometimes they talk about little men. Sometimes they talk about creatures. So I asked Jose how come you can’t tell me if they were creatures or men? Well, they were short. They were about the same size as the kids about four feet tall. They were humanoid. They were breathing the air. They didn’t have a helmet or a mask or anything else. They had sharp eyes. They had almost no mouth and very little nose. And they were wearing coveralls that look gray. And they stayed inside the object so the kids saw them through that opening sort of being apparently very agitated, very worried about, but they they were not apparently not hurt. So they watched this for a while and then they say they have to report it to somebody. The older kid, Jose, wants to go inside and help. The younger kid Raimi doesn’t want anything to do with it. He’s very scared, he’s crying, he’s terrified. They decide the important thing is to report it, which is true. They get on their horses, they go home, they report it to their father. The father calls the state police and the State Police is going to come there, you know 48 hours later with the Father and with the kids. So that’s essentially the stage. Paola was the first to know about the case and to interview both of the witnesses, and to gather the information, and then she brought me in to look at the technical aspects of it. And we’ve been working on it for four years, I’ve gone there five times.George Knapp How is it that you and she hooked up? I know that in UFO literature, there are brief references to the case. But it’s such that nobody really dug into it to any degree until she did. How did the two of you get together? And how that collaboration worked out?Jacques Vallée About a year before I had started to look at other cases in New Mexico where there was an opportunity to recover some hardware, or at least some samples. As you know, there are half a dozen crash sites in New Mexico. For colleagues of mine, and the scientist at Stanford, we had access to a site that had been kept very quiet, very secret. And we were going there with metal detectors and shovels to dig up something. And in fact, we found a number of things that we were bringing back to the lab to test. I had a friend who was very interested in this who lived in New Mexico, and who told me there is another case that you should look at. And he invited me to look into this case in San Antonio, New Mexico, I didn’t know much about the case. He didn’t tell me much. He told me that was a case that was linked to the end of World War Two, and to the atom bomb. And he took me to the Owl Cafe, which is now a very notorious place. San Antonio, New Mexico, not San Antonio, Texas. And I had a good time there, you know, absorbing the atmosphere. Of course, that was a place where the scientists from Project Manhattan came to have dinner. And so that little place in the middle of nowhere was serving hamburgers, and selling produce and so on to the scientists when they were in the middle of the preparation for the bomb. Nobody knew, of course, who they were, but they were, you know, Enrico Fermi, Oppenheimer, Nobel prizes, people from all over the place from all over Europe and America, working on finishing and testing the bomb. So that was a very impressive and humbling experience. I became aware that Paola had already researched the case. And I had put some of her interviews on one writer. So that’s when I decided to call her. And then we got together. The idea was that I had access to analysis, I had access to scientists who could help me look at any data we could get. So that would, you know, augment the research she had done interviewing the witnesses at the site. So she introduced me to Mr. Padilla, and the superior took us to the site several times and explained the situation.George Knapp You know there are a lot of alleged crash sites, you mentioned there are six in New Mexico, there are others all over the world. And the stories, the reports dug up by different investigators have varying degrees of credibility. Is that part of why you sort of stayed away from the subject, at least in public? Because, for example, Roswell, the granddaddy of them all. For me, even though as much time as I spend on this, it becomes sort of muddled with all the disinformation from government people and then bad information from UFO folks. It’s a slog to get through this stuff.Jacques Vallée Yes. Well, my reference for Roswell was always Stanton Friedman’s books, because Stanton was an atomic physicist. And he was very good at tracking down stories into the archives, the official archives. But you’re right, I mean, it’s still, when you talk to scientists about that, they say, fascinating story, I’m ready to believe you, you know, I know your reputation, you’re not crazy, but you haven’t given me anything I can take back to the lab and test, okay. This case helps the credibility of Roswell, because we found details about the material that has been recovered there, including some material from inside the object, from inside the craft that we can test. And we are doing that now. So by the way, we are going to be going to that at a conference that Paola is organizing November 11, 12, 13 in Laughlin, Nevada, and I’ll be there. And we’re going to talk about the details of all of that. The important thing with that case is when the kids were there for the following 10 days, it was their land, you know, and we know everything that the Army did. And I mean the Army was not prepared to recover something like this. Once they realized that it was real. It wasn’t their property. It was in public property. You know, it belonged to the father of Mr. Padilla. So they went to the house. And they asked, and again, in researching this, I’ve rediscovered a part of history of American history. And then forget the UFO, we can talk about that separately, but the historical data about the end of the war, about Japan, about the capitulation of Japan, about what would have happened, if we had had the atom bomb, about the testing of the atom bomb, which was not a test was a full scale, atom bomb. It was equal to the in power to the one that destroyed Nagasaki, Japan after Hiroshima, I didn’t realize all of that, I didn’t realize all the details of the science that had gone into this, how the testing was done, I had to learn all that. And fortunately now it’s over 50 years after that, the A-bomb. And a number of very good historical books have come out. So I bought all those books, and I read them cover to cover. And that sort of broadly, you know, brought me up to date. The kids had seen the explosion of the atom bomb. Jose’s mother had been blinded in one eye by the explosion because she heard the sound. And she looked over the horizon, and she saw this, and the power of the light blinded her in one eye. So this is real, I mean, the Army people who came to talk to the father of Sr. Padilla were speaking Spanish. You know, the army officers were there in New Mexico, of course they were bilingual, you know, and the conversations were in Spanish. And part of the population was Indian ,was American Indian. So we’ve reconstructed all of this, and you know, all the books about Trinity they talk about, you know, Professor Oppenheimer, they talk about Dr. Enrico Fermi, they talk about the physics, they forget everybody. When the physicists were there for four years, then they went back to the University of Chicago or wherever, you know, teaching atomic physics after that. The people who were there, they stayed there, and the population had been exposed to a lot of radioactivity, the same amount of radioactivity that was exposed at Nagasaki. Nobody knows that, nobody talks about that. Everybody says there was a test, when a test in science is, you know, you take a little vial, and you make a couple of liquids. And then you take a spectrum photograph, and that’s a test. If it works, you get a patent and so this was not a test. This was an explosion at ground level, which is the worst thing they could have done. And after the Project Manhattan, you know, at White Sands they reset the explosion of the bomb in altitude to minimize radioactivity in Japan. So that the Japanese, I don’t think the Japanese are going to send flowers to the US Army because of that, but they wanted to minimize radioactivity on the ground. That’s not what the bomb was supposed to, I mean, that wasn’t the main military use of the bomb, the bomb was, in it was heat and the explosion, it wasn’t the radioactivity. And at that test, you know, 20 miles from that, that property 20 miles from that land is where they re… truncated (56,597 more characters in archive)