US and NVA encounters with the "Vietnamese Rock Ape" in the Vietnam War

Redfangwarrior1998 · Jul 5, 2020

Im not normally one to believe in cryptids but this video has me fairly convinced. Keep in mind that Mark Felton is NOT normally a cryptid or conspiracy theory channel and usually only does really cool and unknown history storys and only did this video after recieving a litany of comments about the subject on a video he did of tiger attacks on US patrols during the Vietnam war and after doing the research he was left convinced. Basically the Vietnamese Rock Ape is a "cryptid" (god i hate that term) that has been described to exist within the jungle hills of Vietnam and Combodia. It is worth pointing out that until the Vietnam war these areas had remained largely unexplored by westerners with only only a number of fiercely independent hill tribes occupying the territory. The french only sent a handful of expeditions into the area several of which claimed to have seen the beasts. The Vietnam War saw the first large numbers of non natives explore the areas including both US and NVA troops both of which reported numerous encounters with the creatures. One particularly noteworthy enocunter with US troops saw the creatures get there name when US troops built a base ontop of a jungly mountain and a group of the "rock apes" began to throw rocks into the base. This is a common behaviour of great apes. The US largely wrote these tales off as drug fueled delusions of there men but the NVA took them somewhat more seriously and sent several research expeditions to the area to attempt to catalogue the beasts and prove there existence. While they were unable to make any sightings they did find several footprints that were clearly ape in nature and likely not human. Now mark tries to argue that they may be a remnant populace of Homo Floresiensis but i think thats a horseshit History channel level explanation and that its much more likely that if they are real they are some sort of unknown relative to the Orangutans as there coloring and general description largely matches that of a particularly large Orangutan. What do you guys think? Were the US and Vietnamese making these encounters and sightings up? Were they cases of mistaken identity? Do any of you have any storys from friends or family that served and saw that beasts?

eliar · Jul 5, 2020

Strange things can happen in wartime.

It could be an obscure breed of ape. Or cosplaying locals trying to spook/scare of the armed idiots shitting up the place,

caezlinnorm · Jul 5, 2020

Tigers and lions would at times ambush small patrols during the Vietnam War. Not many soldiers were lost to them luckily as when it happened the rest of the patrol would shoot the lion or tiger. And yes there were still some lions in Vietnam back then, they were maneless and not very big compared to what you might see in Africa usually not much over a hundred to a hundred fifty pounds. But even then lions were rare enough that the mountain people considered them rarely seen. As to the rock apes, remember how quickly people overestimate the size of things when they're startled or on edge. Especially to a bunch of conscripts from North America that have only ever seen anything apelike on TV before trying to spot something throwing rocks at them from the forest it can be really easy to turn something like a gibbon or big monkey into a gorilla. And nearly all primates are well known to throw things when disturbed or threatened. I would not be surprised if there was an unknown primate of some kind in the region, after all they're still finding large unknown mammals in the region as late as the 2000s. But it's probably something gibbon sized or so that stressed people were overestimating the size of.

Pooka · Jul 5, 2020

There are orangutans in Indonesia and Malaysia. It seems possible there might be a population of same on the mainland of Southeast Asia.

NAVY SEALS · Jul 5, 2020

Or maybe a surviving population of Homo Erectus. It is not out of the realm of possibility that Homo Sapiens are not the only human species in Asia.

someone_75413 · Jul 5, 2020

NAVY SEALS said:
Or maybe a surviving population of Homo Erectus. It is not out of the realm of possibility that Homo Sapiens are not the only human species in Asia.

Yes, it is. Sure, plenty of human populations have gone "uncontacted" elsewhere in the world, but we know they're there due to contacts with nearby indigenous groups and various chance encounters. That part of Vietnam isn't a trackless jungle and someone would have seen something verifiable or gotten ahold of a corpse. Not to mention that surviving Homo Erectus would leave behind evidence of fire and toolmaking.

caezlinnorm · Jul 5, 2020

someone_75413 said:
Yes, it is. Sure, plenty of human populations have gone "uncontacted" elsewhere in the world, but we know they're there due to contacts with nearby indigenous groups and various chance encounters. That part of Vietnam isn't a trackless jungle and someone would have seen something verifiable or gotten ahold of a corpse. Not to mention that surviving Homo Erectus would leave behind evidence of fire and toolmaking.

Thank you. If the Vietnamese rock ape is real then it's likely something the size of a large baboon or small bonobo at the high end. And that is something I could see a small population of surviving unknown to science in those mountain forests. As for the longest time only the mountain people lived up there and they are not friendly to strangers. And those mountain forests have produced large unknown mammals in the last two decades. But it wouldn't be a "Vietnamese bigfoot" or "wildman" except in the most vague sense of being an ape.

NAVY SEALS · Jul 5, 2020

someone_75413 said:
Yes, it is. Sure, plenty of human populations have gone "uncontacted" elsewhere in the world, but we know they're there due to contacts with nearby indigenous groups and various chance encounters. That part of Vietnam isn't a trackless jungle and someone would have seen something verifiable or gotten ahold of a corpse. Not to mention that surviving Homo Erectus would leave behind evidence of fire and toolmaking.

Do you know how long a corpse lasts in a Jungle. News flash not long at all. As for tool making. How would you even tell. They may be primitive humans but they are still humans who would have learned to stay clear of Homo Sapiens. Especially after the Vietnam War. My first Duty station was right next to a jungle. You would be surprised how good things are at hiding in a jungle.

someone_75413 · Jul 5, 2020

NAVY SEALS said:
Do you know how long a corpse lasts in a Jungle. News flash not long at all. As for tool making. How would you even tell. They may be primitive humans but they are still humans who would have learned to stay clear of Homo Sapiens. Especially after the Vietnam War. My first Duty station was right next to a jungle. You would be surprised how good things are at hiding in a jungle.

That's not even what I mean. Some of the tall tales (rock ape caught in artillery fire or shot by perimeter guards) would have produced corpses, but the stories always include a convenient reason why the corpse disappeared with no trace. Rock shavings, animal traps, refuse piles, dwellings, discarded tools or clothing. Not exactly rocket science.

If it's so easy to hide in a jungle, surely you can provide recent (post-2000 or so) examples of completely unknown, unsuspected tribes being suddenly discovered? News flash, we know where they are and often know quite a bit about them, even in areas much more isolated than Western Vietnam.

caezlinnorm · Jul 5, 2020

NAVY SEALS said:
Do you know how long a corpse lasts in a Jungle. News flash not long at all. As for tool making. How would you even tell. They may be primitive humans but they are still humans who would have learned to stay clear of Homo Sapiens. Especially after the Vietnam War. My first Duty station was right next to a jungle. You would be surprised how good things are at hiding in a jungle.

It's probably not Homo erectus, if it were we'd have encountered at least one other relic population in other parts of Southeast Asia. Because there are other parts of that region of the world just as remote as the mountain jungles of Vietnam. There's almost always truth in local lore about strange animals, but it's not necessarily the truth you think it will be. Notice how over time US accounts changed, early accounts agree that they're red furred but put them as being maybe four feet tall or so and that they are very elusive and hard to spot but sometimes throw rocks out of the jungle at troops. But as time goes on the accounts morph into something more like bigfoot? That's one of the key signals that whatever people were encountering as time went on tall tales from the US bled into them as the word of their existence spread and people heard about a 'Vietnamese wildman' before any encounter to influence their perception.

I could see there being an smallish unknown ape up there in those mountains. Would fit with both mountain people accounts and early European explorer accounts, and wouldn't be the first such new ape to show up unexpectedly in Indochina. Remember that local populations knew gorillas and orangutans as 'wildmen.'

NAVY SEALS · Jul 5, 2020

someone_75413 said:
That's not even what I mean. Some of the tall tales (rock ape caught in artillery fire or shot by perimeter guards) would have produced corpses, but the stories always include a convenient reason why the corpse disappeared with no trace. Rock shavings, animal traps, refuse piles, dwellings, discarded tools or clothing. Not exactly rocket science.

If it's so easy to hide in a jungle, surely you can provide recent (post-2000 or so) examples of completely unknown, unsuspected tribes being suddenly discovered? News flash, we know where they are and often know quite a bit about them, even in areas much more isolated than Western Vietnam.

You do realize they would be nomadic right? They would be moving throughout IndoChina. Not staying in one location. They are not Homo Sapiens. They would think different.

someone_75413 · Jul 5, 2020

NAVY SEALS said:
You do realize they would be nomadic right? They would be moving throughout IndoChina. Not staying in one location. They are not Homo Sapiens. They would think different.

That just means more traces in more areas and a greater chance of contact.

NAVY SEALS · Jul 5, 2020

someone_75413 said:
That just means more traces in more areas and a greater chance of contact.

And the contact would be. "I saw a Hairy Apeman in the jungle." Homo Erectus were not hairless like us.

Brethern · Jul 5, 2020

It might be just me but they're described as having Tails.

That's actually something new,

someone_75413 said:
That just means more traces in more areas and a greater chance of contact.

That's assuming that the person who found them actually knew what they were.

Not everyone is an archaeologist who would be able to identify something like that on sight.

Hell when you get down to it, finding something anything in a jungle or a forest is really fucking hard, I mean it's not like the US fought and lost a war to a group that hid in the jungle.

Also you're not assuming the possibility that the creatures are intelligent and learned over the centuries how to hide evidence of their presence.

someone_75413 said:
That's not even what I mean. Some of the tall tales (rock ape caught in artillery fire or shot by perimeter guards) would have produced corpses, but the stories always include a convenient reason why the corpse disappeared with no trace. Rock shavings, animal traps, refuse piles, dwellings, discarded tools or clothing. Not exactly rocket science.

When it comes to the corpses think for a second.

The Vietnam war wasn't popular back home, if they produced a corpse of a Rock ape, or couple corpses.

That wouldn't be taken as proof that bigfoot exists.

That would be Taken as this.

US Army personnel in Vietnam Kill new species of animal.

Or something twisted and spun to make them look evil.

makoshark04 · Jul 6, 2020

Speaking soldiers encountering cryptid. During Word War II in Papua New Guinea, soldiers from both sides reported encountering pterodactyl. Locals claim to be common sight and IJA soldiers actively hunt them. A American soldier claim he saw one as well.

Redfangwarrior1998 · Jul 6, 2020

briantk said:
Speaking soldiers encountering cryptid. During Word War II in Papua New Guinea, soldiers from both sides reported encountering pterodactyl. Locals claim to be common sight and IJA soldiers actively hunt them. A American soldier claim he saw one as well.

Thats really intersting. Do you have any sources?

makoshark04 · Jul 6, 2020

Ahm...it was on History Channel...
A Monster Quest episode Flying Monsters Dragons (Cryptids) of Papua New Guinea (Pterosaur).

(Hides in shame)

Prophet420 · Jul 6, 2020

caezlinnorm said:
It's probably not Homo erectus, if it were we'd have encountered at least one other relic population in other parts of Southeast Asia. Because there are other parts of that region of the world just as remote as the mountain jungles of Vietnam. There's almost always truth in local lore about strange animals, but it's not necessarily the truth you think it will be. Notice how over time US accounts changed, early accounts agree that they're red furred but put them as being maybe four feet tall or so and that they are very elusive and hard to spot but sometimes throw rocks out of the jungle at troops. But as time goes on the accounts morph into something more like bigfoot? That's one of the key signals that whatever people were encountering as time went on tall tales from the US bled into them as the word of their existence spread and people heard about a 'Vietnamese wildman' before any encounter to influence their perception.

I could see there being an smallish unknown ape up there in those mountains. Would fit with both mountain people accounts and early European explorer accounts, and wouldn't be the first such new ape to show up unexpectedly in Indochina. Remember that local populations knew gorillas and orangutans as 'wildmen.'

Red fur and about 4 feet high? That does sound like an orangutan to me.

Redfangwarrior1998 · Jul 6, 2020

briantk said:
Ahm...it was on History Channel...
A Monster Quest episode Flying Monsters Dragons (Cryptids) of Papua New Guinea (Pterosaur).

(Hides in shame)

Thats not exactly a credible source. Got anything better then the "history" channel.

Teslashark · Jul 6, 2020

briantk said:
Speaking soldiers encountering cryptid. During Word War II in Papua New Guinea, soldiers from both sides reported encountering pterodactyl. Locals claim to be common sight and IJA soldiers actively hunt them. A American soldier claim he saw one as well.

Redfangwarrior1998 said:
Thats really intersting. Do you have any sources?

They are frigate birds mistaken for pteros, according to Trey The Explainer on youtube

Redfangwarrior1998 · Jul 6, 2020

Teslashark said:
They are frigate birds mistaken for pteros, according to Trey The Explainer on youtube

Yeah thought that sounded far too BS to be true. Orangutans in Vietnam is one thing. Pteradactyls just straight up beggers belief.

wingren013 · Jul 8, 2020

This might just be local hillfolk dressed in some kind of furs. These people are generally pretty hostile to outsiders. It's not impossible that soldiers saw them throwing rocks at the firebase and misidentified them as apes due to poor visibility.

Loken Lupercal · Jul 20, 2020

I lived in Vietnam as long as I can remember and this is the first time I truly heard about these 'Rock Apes'. One could consider them as some surviving species of Homo (most unlikely unless this species is before Homo Erectus) or go with wilder theory about 'new' species of ape (but that really go to cryptic department there).

I think if we go with the logic here then war is one hell of a thing so seeing an orangutan as some ape-man is not too far-fetch. OR another distinct possibility here is the whole 'Rock Ape' stuff is just some American soldier tries to paint the enemy as hairy beast but the whole message went wrong and people truly believed there is an ape-man somewhere out there.

Still, we have the specific term for them, 'Jungle Man' (Người rừng) but that often directed to minority ethnic tribes (we have quite a lot for a small country) that lived so deep inside the mountains and forest, contacting them is harder than finding chains on the ground.

briantk said:
Ahm...it was on History Channel...
A Monster Quest episode Flying Monsters Dragons (Cryptids) of Papua New Guinea (Pterosaur).

(Hides in shame)

Ah yes, History Channel, my favorite place to search for a 'good' historical document these days.

Pawn Shop, Aliens build the pyramids 'theory' or another story about Nazi-Dinosaur-Time Travel-Hitler are truly the greatest historical events.

NAVY SEALS said:
And the contact would be. "I saw a Hairy Apeman in the jungle." Homo Erectus were not hairless like us.

While it is true that Homo Erectus is not as 'bald' as their Homo Sapien cousin, their appearance hardly resembles an ape-man either.

Homo Habilis or Australopithecus seems like a better candidate in this speculation.

Kyfan · Jul 20, 2020

My uncle (basically my father) that raised me was special forces in Vietnam. I showed this video to him and asked his opinion. What he said was that the jungle especially in that area does strange things to people. However he also said that the folks living in that area were not the kind of people to make up stories if they say something is there something is there. He never saw one in his time there but like Mr Felton said the jungle is great at hiding things. Tigers for instance are an apex predator and they only time those got seen was when one got desperate enough to attack a patrol. So take that as you will but I'd posit that something has to be there

OmManiMantra · Jul 20, 2020

Apparently, most of the Hominoid fossils found in Vietnam are actually orangutan fossils, and that it’s very rare to find fossils of either Gigantopithecus or even fossils belonging to the genus Homo.

This means that, if the Vietnamese Rock Ape is an actual animal, it may be an orangutan species that occupies a very restricted range in a remote area.

It’s not that far-fetched of an explanation either, given that there’s evidence to suggest that modern orangutans modified their behavior in response to hunting pressures to retreat into remote habitats, where they live today.

The only thing that I’m not able to explain is the rock-throwing; neither gibbons nor orangutans exhibit that type of behavior to scare off predators.

US and NVA encounters with the "Vietnamese Rock Ape" in the Vietnam War

Redfangwarrior1998

eliar

caezlinnorm

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Pooka

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NAVY SEALS

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someone_75413

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caezlinnorm

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NAVY SEALS

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someone_75413

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caezlinnorm

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NAVY SEALS

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someone_75413

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Brethern

makoshark04

Redfangwarrior1998

makoshark04

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Redfangwarrior1998

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Loken Lupercal

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Kyfan

OmManiMantra

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